Jump to content


Photo

Minimum Equipment For First Responders


  • Please log in to reply
16 replies to this topic

#1 bkn

bkn

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 31 posts

Posted 06 November 2012 - 04:10 AM

Hi everyone,
I'm looking for what people carry on their aircraft if they are classified as first responders. We are starting to see more requests to areas with limited or no ems support and want to be prepared, but how do we balance extra equipment needed with the extra weight that would add to our aircraft.
All input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks.
Brenda
  • 0

#2 Jwade

Jwade

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1405 posts

Posted 06 November 2012 - 03:37 PM

Hi everyone,
I'm looking for what people carry on their aircraft if they are classified as first responders. We are starting to see more requests to areas with limited or no ems support and want to be prepared, but how do we balance extra equipment needed with the extra weight that would add to our aircraft.
All input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks.
Brenda



Brenda,

You will need to get the pilots involved to make these decisions. You cannot just add equipment to an aircraft at will without approval from the pilots. Weight & Balance, Center of Gravity, Fuel consumption / carry ability / aircraft performance will all be affected by additional weight......

What type of AC is your program using? Also, can you detail what you mean by first responders? The delineation varies greatly from state to state......

Thanks
JW
  • 0
John Wade MBA, CCEMT-P, FP-C, RN

"Have the courage to follow your heart and intuition, they somehow already know what you truly want to become" Steve Jobs

#3 bkn

bkn

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 31 posts

Posted 07 November 2012 - 03:12 AM

Brenda,

You will need to get the pilots involved to make these decisions. You cannot just add equipment to an aircraft at will without approval from the pilots. Weight & Balance, Center of Gravity, Fuel consumption / carry ability / aircraft performance will all be affected by additional weight......

What type of AC is your program using? Also, can you detail what you mean by first responders? The delineation varies greatly from state to state......

Thanks
JW


JW<
Actually we include our pilots and mechanics, first responders for the state of WA is defined as first person/persons on a scene with training to assess a scene and provide care (for EMS) I'm talking about some remote islands that may not even have cars on them, but golf carts for transportation. We currently are in EC 135's and Agusta Power - we know we have weight limitations as most people do, so I'm looking for creative ideas to meet needs without adding a lot of weight.
  • 0

#4 pureadrenalin

pureadrenalin

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 413 posts

Posted 23 November 2012 - 11:08 PM

Essentially, you'd have everything you'd need sans a longboard, collars, and bandaging supplies if I'm assuming correctly.


Most backboards are about 15lbs, no way to get around space that this will take up. If you are in the 135, you could likely place it between the cot and port side wall of the aircraft. They do make folding backboards, potentially could store it on starboard side at the rear doors.

For the rest of the BLS supplies. KTD for traction splint. about 2lbs.

Bandaging, I'd just grab a few Israeli combat dressings, some combat gauze as long as it has Kaolin, a few cravats, various sizes of kling rolls. 2/3/4" should cover it, maybe three each, a few HALO chest seals, and lastly two or three CAT tourniquets.


That should cover everything. Put it all in a small bag, at best, you've added 25lbs with the longboard being the bulk of it.
  • 0

#5 bkn

bkn

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 31 posts

Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:32 AM

Essentially, you'd have everything you'd need sans a longboard, collars, and bandaging supplies if I'm assuming correctly.


Most backboards are about 15lbs, no way to get around space that this will take up. If you are in the 135, you could likely place it between the cot and port side wall of the aircraft. They do make folding backboards, potentially could store it on starboard side at the rear doors.

For the rest of the BLS supplies. KTD for traction splint. about 2lbs.

Bandaging, I'd just grab a few Israeli combat dressings, some combat gauze as long as it has Kaolin, a few cravats, various sizes of kling rolls. 2/3/4" should cover it, maybe three each, a few HALO chest seals, and lastly two or three CAT tourniquets.


That should cover everything. Put it all in a small bag, at best, you've added 25lbs with the longboard being the bulk of it.


  • 0

#6 bkn

bkn

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 31 posts

Posted 27 November 2012 - 02:33 AM

Great list, thanks for the info. an additional 25#'s, that's alot of weight, I'm going to start searching for light weight boards and see what our options are. Of course some of this stuff we already carry, but I'll compare.
Thanks again.
  • 0

#7 pureadrenalin

pureadrenalin

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 413 posts

Posted 28 November 2012 - 01:10 AM

The lightest board I've ever been able to find is 14lbs. You are going to be very, very hard pressed to find anything less. Might be worth finding out if the local first responders can carry that stuff to save on the weight.

Just by replacing all of the bulky trauma dressings and other stuff with just a few very effective dressings, can cut the weight and size of stuff you carry. You can shrink what you have pretty quick. Honestly, you could potentially just carry enough to cover one patient, and have a small resupply at each frequently visited hospital away from your base.
  • 0

#8 old school

old school

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1121 posts

Posted 28 November 2012 - 01:30 AM

Hi everyone,
I'm looking for what people carry on their aircraft if they are classified as first responders. We are starting to see more requests to areas with limited or no ems support and want to be prepared, but how do we balance extra equipment needed with the extra weight that would add to our aircraft.
All input is greatly appreciated.

Thanks.
Brenda


The state EMS bureau likely has a list of minimum required equipment for first responding units and for transporting ALS units.

You probably already have most of the important stuff. As was already pointed out, things like backboard & c-collars are probably the only major things that you don't already have.

You also need the training to use them. Immobilization certainly isn't rocket science, but there are right and wrong ways to do it, especially on a patient who is trapped.
  • 0
bring it in for the real thing

#9 bkn

bkn

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 31 posts

Posted 28 November 2012 - 04:23 AM

The state EMS bureau likely has a list of minimum required equipment for first responding units and for transporting ALS units.

You probably already have most of the important stuff. As was already pointed out, things like backboard & c-collars are probably the only major things that you don't already have.

You also need the training to use them. Immobilization certainly isn't rocket science, but there are right and wrong ways to do it, especially on a patient who is trapped.


  • 0

#10 bkn

bkn

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 31 posts

Posted 28 November 2012 - 04:25 AM

All of our nurses are EMT's and go through recurrent training because we are not first responders frequently, currently the only thing we are not carrying is the backboard, some of the places we are being asked to go, don't have first responders, these are private islands with families that have passed the land down through the generations. Thanks for the help.
  • 0

#11 MSDeltaFlt

MSDeltaFlt

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 559 posts

Posted 28 November 2012 - 05:06 PM

For your EC-135, you'll need a LSB (probably a folding board), but your Augusta might not need one. If your configuration is as I believe, you could use your cot as a LSB. I've done that more than once in a 206 when I've beaten EMS to the scene. Everythi g elase you should have onboard.
  • 0
Mike Hester, RRT/NRP/FP-C
Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear - not absence of fear -- Mark Twain

#12 pureadrenalin

pureadrenalin

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 413 posts

Posted 03 December 2012 - 03:41 AM

Just an idea.....


Maybe you should look into NOT carrying a spineboard. With all of the research that's coming out on spinal injuries and how pointless cspine precautions actually are..maybe a KED or a LSP Halfbacker would do...


I just found out about a local EMS agency who has ditched cpsine precautions entirely. My service already has a selective immobilization protocol in place, and we rarely cspine anyone.

Here is an excellent article on this topic. Read both parts. Part 3 is coming shortly. This is where people who support evidence based medicine are the happiest..myself included.


Spinal Dogma Part 1
  • 0

#13 SerendepitySaki

SerendepitySaki

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1176 posts

Posted 03 December 2012 - 04:55 AM

is your link broken?

Just an idea.....


Maybe you should look into NOT carrying a spineboard. With all of the research that's coming out on spinal injuries and how pointless cspine precautions actually are..maybe a KED or a LSP Halfbacker would do...


I just found out about a local EMS agency who has ditched cpsine precautions entirely. My service already has a selective immobilization protocol in place, and we rarely cspine anyone.

Here is an excellent article on this topic. Read both parts. Part 3 is coming shortly. This is where people who support evidence based medicine are the happiest..myself included.


Spinal Dogma Part 1


  • 0
LET THE WILD RUMPUS BEGIN !!!!!!
Sean G. Smith, RN-Alphabet Soup

#14 bkn

bkn

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 31 posts

Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:25 AM

For your EC-135, you'll need a LSB (probably a folding board), but your Augusta might not need one. If your configuration is as I believe, you could use your cot as a LSB. I've done that more than once in a 206 when I've beaten EMS to the scene. Everythi g elase you should have onboard.


  • 0

#15 bkn

bkn

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 31 posts

Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:26 AM

I think you may be right, our Agusta is as hard as a spine board! I'll look into the folding board, Thanks for sharing
  • 0

#16 bkn

bkn

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 31 posts

Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:27 AM

Just an idea.....


Maybe you should look into NOT carrying a spineboard. With all of the research that's coming out on spinal injuries and how pointless cspine precautions actually are..maybe a KED or a LSP Halfbacker would do...


I just found out about a local EMS agency who has ditched cpsine precautions entirely. My service already has a selective immobilization protocol in place, and we rarely cspine anyone.

Here is an excellent article on this topic. Read both parts. Part 3 is coming shortly. This is where people who support evidence based medicine are the happiest..myself included.


Spinal Dogma Part 1


  • 0

#17 bkn

bkn

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 31 posts

Posted 04 December 2012 - 02:28 AM

While I would love to say NO to spineboards, I think the trauma center we fly into would have an issue with that. I can work with our medical director on what may be optional to board.
  • 0