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Army Flight Nurse Career Field


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#1 SickPuppy

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Posted 03 October 2007 - 12:21 PM

The Army has been sending nurses on helicopters to take care of their critical patients when transporting them from Baghdad (or a FOB) to Balad. I was talking to one of the nurses yesterday who said that the Army might possibly be creating a flight nurse career field. I was able to participate in a teleconference with Ft Rucker and the Joint Enroute Care Course students there, and it seems like the JECC might be the foundation for a possible FN MOS. Has anybody in the Army heard of this possibility- it seems like it could be really interesting.
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#2 lostmedic

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Posted 03 October 2007 - 03:24 PM

I am not in the army, but this does seem interesting to me.
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Morgan

#3 Gila

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Posted 03 October 2007 - 06:56 PM

I am not currently in the Army; however, this looks to be a very interesting development if it pans out. As of about a year ago, Nurses did not typically operate on helicopters in the Army.
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Christopher Bare
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#4 lostmedic

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Posted 03 October 2007 - 06:58 PM

yeah, that is pretty interesting.
I am more interested to know if they (All 3 Services, Army, Navy and Air Force) will keep the aeromedical things they are builing up now, in place after the war is over.
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Morgan

#5 Loydster

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Posted 04 October 2007 - 12:11 AM

I think it would also be great. I looked into this recently since a MD friend of mine just got back from Bagdad and told me of what you speak of. My current flight partner (EMTP) just returned from a tour in Afghanistan. I asked him about such of a MOS in which RNs were on a A/C. He called his friend at Rucker and they said there was no such MOS. The current thought is giving the EMTPs even more advanced training to increase their level of care/knowledge. I would like to see a RN based MOS for the A/C, but realistacly I don't see the US Army spending the money for that, exspecialy with RNs being in a shortage. But if they did come up with that MOS, I'd re-inlist in a heart beat!
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#6 nosleep4r

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Posted 04 October 2007 - 12:32 AM

This is not a new rumor. When I started flying a decade ago this was the "hot topic" it's only been brought back to light following the need for Critical Care based care in theater. We just sent another medic to Rucker and the course started a Critical Care portion in the program...a good start, but the problem with us Flight medics will never be solved as long as we don't demand a Certification for the position. Just FYI the vast majority of our active duty Flight Medics are EMT-B with ACLS and PEPP certifications and some additional IV skills. With that in mind who would give a CC pt to them without sending a RN?? A lot of the Reserve units and NG units that are going over have Perfessional providers with them and the number of RNs needed to assist is reduced.

Just another rumor, just like making Certified Paramedics Warrant Officers on the aircraft to keep them around....That's been around for years also....AHHH.. I love this man's Army!!!

Talk to you all soon.

Rick
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CCEMTP, NREMTP

#7 lostmedic

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Posted 04 October 2007 - 06:05 AM

Certified Paramedics Warrant Officers


Wow. Now I would reenlist for that.
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Morgan

#8 SickPuppy

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Posted 04 October 2007 - 12:48 PM

I think it would also be great. I looked into this recently since a MD friend of mine just got back from Bagdad and told me of what you speak of. My current flight partner (EMTP) just returned from a tour in Afghanistan. I asked him about such of a MOS in which RNs were on a A/C. He called his friend at Rucker and they said there was no such MOS. The current thought is giving the EMTPs even more advanced training to increase their level of care/knowledge. I would like to see a RN based MOS for the A/C, but realistacly I don't see the US Army spending the money for that, exspecialy with RNs being in a shortage. But if they did come up with that MOS, I'd re-inlist in a heart beat!

The lead I got on the potential FN MOS was from an Army nurse from Baghdad that had flown us a patient to Balad. They are currently being used for the critical care transports, and I think this is where the new push for flight nurses in the Army has come from. It may also turn out that they will just continue to train certain nurses to act as attendants for critical patients.
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#9 Gila

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Posted 04 October 2007 - 08:10 PM

The US Army offers a specialized course in critical care nursing. I think it is one of a few known as Generic Course Selection Programs. The course is 16 weeks in length and nurses must meet specific criteria prior to taking one of these courses. In addition, I think only junior officers can take these courses. (O1-O3) I am not sure if CCT is covered in the course however.
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Christopher Bare
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#10 Loydster

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Posted 04 October 2007 - 10:17 PM

The Nurses that are doing the CCT type calls on the A/C are just pulled from their regular duties. They have also pulled MDs to do the same thing. The problem is there in no MOS for the RNs to do this premantly. So you could be working in the EMT or ward and get pulled to do a CCT, but never assigned to the job. EMTPs in the past few years have gotten the MOS to always be a flight medic (91WF) after their training which is ~4 weeks from Rutcker. Thus they can no longer be pulled from the A/C to work say front lines as a medic with a group of 11B (infantry). Flight Medicine is now under Aviation not AAMED any more, thus it makes it even more difficult for a RN to be made a permanent MOS.
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#11 BadPieces

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 03:49 AM

The Army has been sending nurses on helicopters to take care of their critical patients when transporting them from Baghdad (or a FOB) to Balad. I was talking to one of the nurses yesterday who said that the Army might possibly be creating a flight nurse career field. I was able to participate in a teleconference with Ft Rucker and the Joint Enroute Care Course students there, and it seems like the JECC might be the foundation for a possible FN MOS. Has anybody in the Army heard of this possibility- it seems like it could be really interesting.


Hi SickPuppy, I've been through Aerospace Physio for AE at Brooks twice (once as a AET and the second time as an FN) and each time there were Army nurses in the program with us. They didn't get "pinned" with USAF wings like the rest of us, but still took a heck of a lot of training and knowledge away with them back to their posts. Also, the Army Nurses I spoke with said they do fly alongs as a special duty or additional duty type assignment but they didn't have a specific MOS for it. You know how that it, sometimes you can find really cool niches in the Military that don't really have an official title to them, but are super cool to do.
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#12 FlightBoi

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 08:00 PM

Hi, folks. Just reading through the thread. As a former Army Nurse who did the Baghdad to Balad CCT's with flight medics from air ambluance companies, I can attest to the fact that yes, you get about 30 mins worth of instruction on packaging and transporting a pt without any protocols other than "keep them on what they're on and make sure you know how to fix them if anything happens on the way north." It worked, and having gone through the Critical Care Nursing Course, no they don't teach you about flight phys and all that good stuff, but they DO make sure you know how to keep a pt alive in the event you need to act without a physician present. That being said, I know and used to work with the former director of the JECC, and as of AMTC, she was in the final stages of getting an additional skill identifier (ASI) for critical care nurses to do rotor wing transports approved. As with anything else in the Army, there's a ton of paperwork, including feasability studies, job description and basic qualifier workups that needed to accompany her request, then it has to get approved through the Dept of the Army, which itself can take an inordinate amount of time. But stay tuned, it may just happen...

Fly safe all....and it's getting cold out!!!
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#13 Loydster

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 10:11 PM

It sounds very positive. I'll probably to old if/when it get approaved and on line. :(
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#14 georgeftzgrld

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Posted 11 November 2007 - 04:24 PM

The army does have nurses in the Joint Enroute Care Course, in theater there is alot of Casevac being used in theater, and transfer between echelons of care where they are being used. But all of these Army nurses are mostly at the echelon 3 level, the only services with flight nurses ahead of that level were the Navy, and Air Force from my experience. I was a treatment team leader in Ramadi, Iraq which is shaping my experience. I was in Western Iraq, the Marines do not have the dedicated Medevac airframes that the Army does, and air evac was only done from our forward support medical company, it was too hot for the aircraft to go into Ramadi. We had flight nurses attached to us with a Navy Surgical team. We used the flight nurse to fly to either Bagdad or Balad with our most critically wounded, I worked as his back-up because of my civilian experience. We sent our personel because quite often we were sending patients on ventilators, paralysed & sedated, with chest tubes, and blood hanging, and with some fragile vascular repairs. We also sent our people because if we did not we would not get our equipment back, Ramadi was at the end of a long supply chain, we only had a few ventilators, and our amount of O2 cylinders was limited, when our people did not go we never got anything back.

Now I am the Medical Operations NCO for a Brigade Support Bn, we do not have any flight nurses at the division or brigade level at the brigade level we only have one nurse in our support medical company. With the acuity of patients we treated in theater it would make sense for a flight nurse to be at the brigade support medical company, or with the forward surgical teams. This would improve information transfer and care between echelons, another issue we had was there was virtually no report passed on between levels, when I flew into level 3 facilities I would be rushing to strip my equipment from the patient while reporting to who ever seemed interested and running back to the bird, if you did not hurry the Casevac bird would leave you there. But like I said my experience was shaped by where I was deployed to, Iraq is a different experience depending where you are.
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#15 dan bergman

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Posted 01 December 2007 - 07:29 PM

Hello to all,
First I want to say a huge thank you to all of you have served our country in uniform I don't think you get to hear that enough these days you truly are hero's. I am a former special forces medic and now commisioned as a er nurse in the Army(66hm5,8a) as a capt. I ahve also done time in the stan's and Iraq. The thing I find interesting about the army is that conus (this means state side) will tell us that RN's are for the hospital, medics for forward line company's and a/c and the higher cert you get the farther back you should be. Now civillian side we are trying to push the highest cert we can as close to the point of injury(POI) as we can. I can appreciate trying to conserve your battlefield resources by not wanting a trauma surgeon blown up but we are also not fighting wwII. Once we get over to the big sand box most rules go out the window and we honestly do take a good look at civillian training. Especially with the reserve and National guard units. We are getting the most qualified person out to the POI and wouldn't you know it Iraq has some of the lowest trauma infection rates and highest save rates in the world right now. You have a better chance of survivnigna roadside bomb w penetrating injury in Iraq than you do a gsw in NYC. Now some factors not considered are most people are generally healthier and in better shape and have body armor, but it is still some food for thought and maybe the big stateside army should really look at what the actual situation is in a learning mode rather than a punitive mode because they might be breaking a rule by swending an rn out on a combat patrol. I personally know a few of us rear echelon rn's who spent more time outside the wire than in and I think we were able to do alot of good and also help teach the younger medics with us.
anyways thanks again for your service guys and for this interesting thread.
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#16 mecpplu

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Posted 02 December 2007 - 12:39 PM

Thanks for this thread. I'm an RN assigned to the 3d Medical Battalion (Marines) in Okinawa Japan where the JECC recently exported a portable En Route Care course to about 10 Navy nurses and 20 some Corpsmen here on the island. This course, for those not familiar with it, is designed to train critical care/ER RN types how to manage the ventilated post-op pts from the Forward Resuscitative Surgical System (FRSS) to the next closest higher eschelon of care via rotor-wing 'bird of opportunity,' normally a CH-46 or CH-53, but will soon include VM-22 Osprey. Many of the points this thread identifies as needing improvement are covered in that course, including flight physiology. There is still the 2 minute turnover while you're trying to disconnect all your equipment (while threatening with bodily injury the pulmonologists who's trying to cut your vent circuit hose/CO2 sensor/O2 tubing bundle b/c he lacks understanding) and run back to the bird with the flight medic (who you never let out of your site for he is air crew and won't get left by your ride!) within the five minutes given by a very anxious pilot who wants to get off the ground. We in the Navy are being told this job may be turned into a Sub Specialty Code like the Army ASI, and are being advised to get into the AF CCAT and the unabridged JECC plus pursue Navy air crew qualifications. There's a push to award 'wings' to those who've done the job or completed the training, but we're not holding our breath. I'm certainly watching this with interest. I appreciate the discussions on these threads and appreciate everyone's perspective.
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#17 FlightMedic1

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Posted 21 August 2008 - 07:49 PM

The Nurses that are doing the CCT type calls on the A/C are just pulled from their regular duties. They have also pulled MDs to do the same thing. The problem is there in no MOS for the RNs to do this premantly. So you could be working in the EMT or ward and get pulled to do a CCT, but never assigned to the job. EMTPs in the past few years have gotten the MOS to always be a flight medic (91WF) after their training which is ~4 weeks from Rutcker. Thus they can no longer be pulled from the A/C to work say front lines as a medic with a group of 11B (infantry). Flight Medicine is now under Aviation not AAMED any more, thus it makes it even more difficult for a RN to be made a permanent MOS.

First of all I wanted to say there is "NO SUCH THING" as an Army Flight Nurse. Yes there is paperwork being done to "TRY" to get it. So for the Nurses out there that are saying they are flight nurses you can tell them they are not being very honest with you. They are nurses that have been to a 2 week course that teaches them how to work in a confined space in the back of a helicopter with a flight medic. The above quoted statement is the closest thing to the truth I have seen in a forum in a long time. Nurses are needed don't get me wrong, if I have a CCT by all means come on. I as a flight medic am not allowed to be awarded my flight wings unless I fly 48 hours "AND" on flight status for 1 year. Another way is to have 15 combat missions. So when one specific nurse can do that by all means award them the wings, but for them to whine about not having wings when they just graduate the course or calling themselves flight nurses I think they should just QUIT WHINING!
As for the paramedics (68Ws now) not being pulled back to an infantry unit or units other than flight is a popular misconception. You can go to any base with orders and that base will have a shortage of medics and you will be put where you are needed. Believe me I speak from experience.
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#18 ABNRANGERCPT

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Posted 01 June 2009 - 12:02 AM

First of all I wanted to say there is "NO SUCH THING" as an Army Flight Nurse. Yes there is paperwork being done to "TRY" to get it. So for the Nurses out there that are saying they are flight nurses you can tell them they are not being very honest with you. They are nurses that have been to a 2 week course that teaches them how to work in a confined space in the back of a helicopter with a flight medic. The above quoted statement is the closest thing to the truth I have seen in a forum in a long time. Nurses are needed don't get me wrong, if I have a CCT by all means come on. I as a flight medic am not allowed to be awarded my flight wings unless I fly 48 hours "AND" on flight status for 1 year. Another way is to have 15 combat missions. So when one specific nurse can do that by all means award them the wings, but for them to whine about not having wings when they just graduate the course or calling themselves flight nurses I think they should just QUIT WHINING!
As for the paramedics (68Ws now) not being pulled back to an infantry unit or units other than flight is a popular misconception. You can go to any base with orders and that base will have a shortage of medics and you will be put where you are needed. Believe me I speak from experience.

Your information is incorrect. There have been Army Flight Nurses and still are. The Institute of Surgical Research has had flight nurses before Vietnam, and have never had an in-flight death might I add. They do flights on fixed and rotary wing (although now it is at least fixed wing for the vast majority). They are also award flight wings to both LPN's and RN's after serving at least one year on the flight team. Really who cares about the badge anyway, doesnt even make a good paper weight once your retired or get out of the service. Army Nurses also can be part of a critical care air transport team (CCAT). I must admit the vast majoriy of the teams are Air Force Nurses. After doing many flights fixed wing and rotary wing, I will say rotary wing transport is typically much more difficult. But any flight can be a goat rodeo if your not prepared.
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#19 ABNRANGERCPT

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Posted 01 June 2009 - 12:08 AM

The Army has been sending nurses on helicopters to take care of their critical patients when transporting them from Baghdad (or a FOB) to Balad. I was talking to one of the nurses yesterday who said that the Army might possibly be creating a flight nurse career field. I was able to participate in a teleconference with Ft Rucker and the Joint Enroute Care Course students there, and it seems like the JECC might be the foundation for a possible FN MOS. Has anybody in the Army heard of this possibility- it seems like it could be really interesting.



They are making an identifier for JECC graduates, I personally dont see an actual MOS occuring anywhere in the near future. What would they do in peace time. Few places do their own flights from military hospitals with RN's and when they do they are not frequent enough to justify the MOS. Dont hold your breath.
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#20 Dustoff1259

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Posted 25 June 2009 - 06:37 PM

I still believe that certain, not all flight medics (enlisted) given the extra training and approved by Command could accomplish the same mission with out having to pull nurses out of an MTF. I have seen circumstances where extra help is needed on RW flights (where a JECC RN would be great to assist with) but why not improve upon something like the Flight Medic course instead of create a new MOS career field?

They are making an identifier for JECC graduates, I personally dont see an actual MOS occuring anywhere in the near future. What would they do in peace time. Few places do their own flights from military hospitals with RN's and when they do they are not frequent enough to justify the MOS. Dont hold your breath.


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