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Flight Suits In Comm. Center


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#1 sendemflyin1

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Posted 29 July 2009 - 02:44 AM

I'm looking for an idea as to how many programs allow flight suits to be worn by Comminication staff as duty uniforms???

We currently wear polo shirts with our name on it and business casual pants. However, our Communication staff will be doing
PR events and are asking to wear flight suits to show that they are a member of the crew.

Any thoughts/suggestions would be great.

Thanks. :rolleyes:
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#2 Mike Mims

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Posted 29 July 2009 - 03:43 AM

I'm coming from years in the fire service where traditionally you have distinction between the crews with uniforms and/or colors.

Thought:
IMO being a part of the crew or program shouldn't be defined by what you wear.
It seems that the communications personnel are not feeling as if they are a part and wearing the flight suit makes them feel differently. If so, there's a problem.

Our comms staff wear polos with our communication symbol on them and casual pants as well. They wear the same uniform when we have a PR event, perform an LZ class or even do a ride-along.

Suggestion:
Keep the polo and casual pants. They should take pride in what they do and having different uniform will define their role within the program....

Unfortunately the two very important members of any program that are not in the fore-front are the comms personnel and the mechanics..........
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#3 Speed

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Posted 29 July 2009 - 04:26 PM

I'm looking for an idea as to how many programs allow flight suits to be worn by Comminication staff as duty uniforms???

We currently wear polo shirts with our name on it and business casual pants. However, our Communication staff will be doing
PR events and are asking to wear flight suits to show that they are a member of the crew.

Any thoughts/suggestions would be great.

Thanks. :rolleyes:


I would top them off with a little garrison cap or maybe even top hats, white gloves, and canes. You could even choreograph a "Rockette" style line dance, that would be most appropriate! The only thing better would be a flight program communication center marching band. Sorry, had to say it. No, not sorry, that's just too much. Being embarrassed of wearing a nice polo and slacks uniform sounds like an identity crisis to me. Hey, I'm just as guilty; I use to dance around in the drill instructor's smokey bear hat late at night in boot camp.
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#4 skysix

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Posted 29 July 2009 - 08:41 PM

I'm with you Speed ( will wonders never cease?!)

Seriously as long as the polo shirts have the company name /logo then there is no reason for them to wear flight suits and if handled with some panache and education at the PR events can help enforce the idea that there are all kinds of staff that make a flight program work to its best profesional capacity

For all those kids who dream of helping others in the medical field and are major tec geeks but faint at the sight o' blood make your com people rise to the challenge of showing how the team is made up of different but equally important parts
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#5 rnbham40

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 04:33 AM

Why would wearing a flight suit make you feel any more part of the team? I don't quite understand....One dons the flight suit because s/he flies, why on earth would one wear it if they don't?
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#6 JLP

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 03:37 PM

I'm looking for an idea as to how many programs allow flight suits to be worn by Comminication staff as duty uniforms???

We currently wear polo shirts with our name on it and business casual pants. However, our Communication staff will be doing
PR events and are asking to wear flight suits to show that they are a member of the crew.

Any thoughts/suggestions would be great.

Thanks. :rolleyes:



Having people wear a uniform that does not go with their actual duties is a bogus way to create "team feeling", and tends to antagonize the people who wear that uniform because their work actually requires it. Do you see fire dispatchers wearing turnout gear? Do police dispatchers wear SWAT uniforms, complete with armour and MP5's? How about full surgical scrubs and gowns on the surgery suite receptionist? This is getting increasingly ridiculous, I know, but that's how front line staff tend to see it when supporting personnel dress as if they go on the a/c everday. I fly three times a month, but when I am at the office/education site where my usual work is, I don't wear a Nomex suit to run a class or show guests around the education site - everyone knows that it would be silly to do so. Besides, are you going to spend $400 per comm person for a flight suit they do not need? How about a helmet? As long as the uniforms are complimentary (that is, the colour scheme and ID clearly shows them to be part of the same organization), that will serve the "team" message much better than flight suits for non-flying personnel, which will be seen as "playing dress-up" by your front-line people.
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#7 nws2002

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 03:56 PM

As a comm spec I don't want to wear a flight suit. We have embroidered polos with stripes down the sleeves that are unique to the comm center, the med crews and pilots have just a plain embroidered polo for their non-flying duties. Subtle distinction, but it still gives us a uniform to call our own, and we are much more comfortable in a polo and jeans then we would be in a flight suit.
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#8 MedicNurse

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Posted 07 October 2009 - 11:34 PM

Why?

Okay, why ask why? But really - they are expensive (most flight folks could always use another one or two at most every program I am aware of), they are freaking hot/cold (that Nomex thing-but if you have open flames in the comms center they do provide a small amount of protection :P ) tend to be unflattering to any woman with err...boobs (straight up and down, no waist either) and if any of your comms folks are "meaty" they usually stop sizing at like a 58 Tall or something like that (I've seen more than a few big folks) so that may really effect team dynamics. I just don't get it.

IF you have a problem with team dynamics that ONLY can be solved by flight suits in the comms centers - you have bigger problems that flight suits will not solve. Of course, others may differ.

However, one of the membership reps has been outfitted for flight in Kentucky - not the same thing, but still a team dynamic question.

http://middlesboro.l..._id=Middlesboro

So who knows - maybe it works?!


Really, I'd think a polo or oxford dress shirt with a logo should be enough to get team spirit flying high!

What do the flight folks wear when doing "off aircraft" stuff??? - I know I am getting old and forgetful, but I remember something about folks that are exposed to BB pathogens having guidelines for washing clothing and where it can be worn. Point - I washed blood from my flightsuit and find the practice of wearing it outside of flying simply gross (spare me all the other attentions and crap - it is, after all, just clothing). Also - scrubs, full turn out (not post fire or in 20" of snow - just a chili fixings run or something to the market!!!) and such are just not acceptable clothing choices outside of the occupations they are designed for - but, hey whatever gets you through the day.

:rolleyes:
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#9 fire_911medic

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 04:03 AM

Why?

... tend to be unflattering to any woman with err...boobs (straight up and down, no waist either)

However, one of the membership reps has been outfitted for flight in Kentucky - not the same thing, but still a team dynamic question.

http://middlesboro.l..._id=Middlesboro


Amen to the point about females ! Obviously they didn't take them into consideration when designing them.

As far as the membership rep - I'm wondering is he a regular flight crew member that membership is just a secondary part of his job? I'm not familiar with AEL's practices regarding membership and their crew members to be certain on anything. But KY has some weird practices already so who knows. I'm in agreement that if you are not a flight crew member why would you want to wear a flight suit? Hot, uncomfortable, yes, that is preferable to a comfy polo and khakis which is what most comms centers I know go with. I don't understand the mentality. They should be proud of who they are and their position and as long as their shirts identify them as a part of the team, they should feel like they are. And I am in agreement with the thought the money could be better spent for other uses than outfitting comms center personnel with a flight suit that will never be utilized unless they do a fly along. But then that presents a unique problem of confusion unless there is an obvious distinction that they are a ride along (such as a vest like some services use). Just another thing to consider.
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#10 JClayborne

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Posted 08 October 2009 - 04:10 AM

I'm going to frogo the long drawn out post about why and simply say, "Umm...no."

Flight suits should be worn by flight staff and only when preforming in that function is where I stand on this. There is no need for any non-flight staff to wear a flight suit.
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#11 NighthawkPatrick

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Posted 13 October 2009 - 11:55 AM

Speaking as a comm spec...

Frankly, I don't see how wearing a flight suit would make me do my communications job any better. It's not going to improve my hearing / listening skills, enhance my decision-making ability, or decrease my reaction time to various events. Only continued training and experience can do that and all the other things necessary to make me a good / better communications specialist.

As for being a member of the crew / team -- I feel that can only be fostered by good relations between the flight crews and comm specs, along with generating mutual respect.

Involving your comms staff in your PRs can be a very good thing. But if your comm specs feel they have to be in flight suits to be part of the team, better find out why they don't feel part of the team in the first place.



Patrick :)

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#12 S.E.comms

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Posted 05 April 2010 - 04:29 AM

Where Iam at ( hospital base)we have to wear flight suits well some of us do.I dont & I do not like it! They are too hot! We started to wear them years ago because our comm spec sometimes have to help with unloading the patients from the aircraft. We were told the nomex would help in case of a fire/crash. I come from 20 + years of working crash fire rescue & fire rescue & I can tell you one thing that little bit of nomex will not help me save my crew or myself in a fire. I like the polo shirts. I can see wearing a flight if you do a ride along just like using a helmet. As far as the feeling of being a part of the crew different uniforms for the different depts. Here the house keeping people wear scrubs & we hear visitors saying hay doctor how is this person doing ect...But each comm spec does have a flight suit & we can use it or buy our own polo shirts (which I do)...Come on people be proud of your JOB!!! If not go to school & get a job you are proud of & leave those of us that are proud of being a com spec alone!!!! I LOVE TELLING OTHER PEOPLE WHERE TO GO!!! HA HA Posted Image
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#13 Mike Mims

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Posted 05 April 2010 - 06:23 AM

Where Iam at ( hospital base)we have to wear flight suits well some of us do.I dont & I do not like it! They are too hot! We started to wear them years ago because our comm spec sometimes have to help with unloading the patients from the aircraft. We were told the nomex would help in case of a fire/crash. I come from 20 + years of working crash fire rescue & fire rescue & I can tell you one thing that little bit of nomex will not help me save my crew or myself in a fire. I like the polo shirts. I can see wearing a flight if you do a ride along just like using a helmet. As far as the feeling of being a part of the crew different uniforms for the different depts. Here the house keeping people wear scrubs & we hear visitors saying hay doctor how is this person doing ect...But each comm spec does have a flight suit & we can use it or buy our own polo shirts (which I do)...Come on people be proud of your JOB!!! If not go to school & get a job you are proud of & leave those of us that are proud of being a com spec alone!!!! I LOVE TELLING OTHER PEOPLE WHERE TO GO!!! HA HA Posted Image

FYI:
They do make Nomex pants and polo shirts; they are expensive, but there is an option..........



We were told the nomex would help in case of a fire/crash. I come from 20 + years of working crash fire rescue & fire rescue & I can tell you one thing that little bit of nomex will not help me save my crew or myself in a fire.

Totally agree.......

I've been in the fire service for a little over 15 years and there has been misconceptions of Nomex, Kevlar, Leather, Teflon etc... Just like there is always a misconception about your "water-proof" watch which is probably only "water -resistant".
If it's water-proof it'll have a IPX level number, 0-8.

IPX 0= no protection.
IPX 8= Protection from water submersion for more than 30 min and 1 meter.
I'll add a little to what's been said:


There has always been other materals available. Nomex is not the industry standard, just the most popular. NFPA 1971 2007 edition states the standard.
Some of the materials available are:
- PBI/Matrix
- PBI/matrix/Kevlar
- P84/Kevlar
- Nomex
- Nomex/Kevlar
You have advantages and disadvantages to the ones listed above.


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Mike Mims

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#14 dmiracco1

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Posted 05 April 2010 - 03:44 PM

IMO, you wear flight suites to fly so if you dont actively fly then you shouldnt wear them.
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#15 Macgyver

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Posted 06 April 2010 - 01:31 AM

This is going to sound harsh - but it seems to need to be.

I LOVE TELLING OTHER PEOPLE WHERE TO GO!!! HA HA Posted Image


I hope this is in jest...

Unless you are a part 121 dispatcher with aeromedical training and experience (as med crew), your role as a Comspec is to facilitate the transport by relaying transport requests to/from the crew so the pilot (who has operational control), in consultation with the flight crew, can decide IF and WHEN they will accept your REQUEST.

The attitude that a Compsec/'dispatcher' TELLS the flight crews where and when to fly is dangerous and likely in violation of FAA regs if that is how your communications with the pilot are acted upon. There is more than enough pressuring of flight crews (by program culture, specific policies, marketing / management, self imposed etc) to just GO and 'take a look'/'try to get in'. We don't need our com centers to be promising a response or providing an ETA to the customers without input from the people who actually walk out to the aircraft and put their lives on the line.
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#16 nws2002

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 05:15 AM

This is going to sound harsh - but it seems to need to be.



I hope this is in jest...

Unless you are a part 121 dispatcher with aeromedical training and experience (as med crew), your role as a Comspec is to facilitate the transport by relaying transport requests to/from the crew so the pilot (who has operational control), in consultation with the flight crew, can decide IF and WHEN they will accept your REQUEST.

The attitude that a Compsec/'dispatcher' TELLS the flight crews where and when to fly is dangerous and likely in violation of FAA regs if that is how your communications with the pilot are acted upon. There is more than enough pressuring of flight crews (by program culture, specific policies, marketing / management, self imposed etc) to just GO and 'take a look'/'try to get in'. We don't need our com centers to be promising a response or providing an ETA to the customers without input from the people who actually walk out to the aircraft and put their lives on the line.


I agree that you are correct, operational control lies with the pilot as an agent of the aircraft operator. Even in 121 ops the dispatcher and pilot work together, and both sign off, no one tells anyone what is going to happen. Disagreements bring in managers and the flight doesn't depart until everyone is on the same page.

However I hate playing 20 questions during the dispatch process, and I think this is more what the poster was thinking. "What is Base A doing?" is a common question when sending Base B outside their normal area, and it is tiring to hear when we've already considered the status of all our crews. "Why are we not going to Specialty Hospital X instead on University Med Ctr Z?" is common on interfacility transports. I don't mind anyone voicing their concerns, but at a certain point common sense and trust also comes into play.

I actually am in training to be licensed as a Part 121 dispatcher, on my own, for career enhancement. We are taught that pilots are generally mission oriented, and dispatchers/comm specs are generally operation oriented. Obviously together they make a good team, similar to nurses and paramedics, but there are some culture clashes, especially during any irregular operation.

I find your comment about providing an ETA interesting though. We have standard launch times based on an average of what we've done in the past, adjusted for day/night, new/experience crews, and weather as needed. The flight time is usually easy to figure out based on mileage. So the ETA, with the emphasis on estimated, is not difficult to determine and provide to the requesting agency. If we need to call an agency back after consulting with the crew and tell them we will be later than our original estimate, that's fine. Could be I misunderstood, and I also know that many services advertise quick, and unrealistic, launch times.
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#17 Macgyver

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Posted 07 April 2010 - 10:10 PM

I also know that many services advertise quick, and unrealistic, launch times.


That's partly it - the unrealistic eta's cause the sending facilities to get PO'd when you are late, and disbelieving in general after they have been burnt a few times.

More worrisome however is the implicit pressure on the crew (mainly the PIC) to rush the preflight planning / IFR clearance etc to get airborne as fast as possible and to choose a route or altitude in order to try to meet the arrival ETA.
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#18 scottyb

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Posted 13 April 2010 - 11:49 PM

Lighten up Francis....

Yes I am SURE that S.E. Comms comment concerning "Telling people where to go" was a joke...

Crack open a Labatt's eh? And if you do not drink, please start.

This is going to sound harsh - but it seems to need to be.



I hope this is in jest...

Unless you are a part 121 dispatcher with aeromedical training and experience (as med crew), your role as a Comspec is to facilitate the transport by relaying transport requests to/from the crew so the pilot (who has operational control), in consultation with the flight crew, can decide IF and WHEN they will accept your REQUEST.

The attitude that a Compsec/'dispatcher' TELLS the flight crews where and when to fly is dangerous and likely in violation of FAA regs if that is how your communications with the pilot are acted upon. There is more than enough pressuring of flight crews (by program culture, specific policies, marketing / management, self imposed etc) to just GO and 'take a look'/'try to get in'. We don't need our com centers to be promising a response or providing an ETA to the customers without input from the people who actually walk out to the aircraft and put their lives on the line.


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#19 Jwade

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Posted 14 April 2010 - 01:32 AM

Why would wearing a flight suit make you feel any more part of the team? I don't quite understand....One dons the flight suit because s/he flies, why on earth would one wear it if they don't?




To play devils advocate here,.....Why do medical crews find it necessary to wear their Flight Suits outside of work to the freaking GROCERY STORE or the MALL? Here in Arizona, I have seen them in Bashas and Albertsons, and at Arrowhead mall......WTH????? Really? Does your EGO really need that much stroking......I think EGO plays a role in the OP question if comm specs are wanting to wear Flight Suits......

JW
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#20 SerendepitySaki

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Posted 14 April 2010 - 01:55 AM

i think it's neurological insult.... you HAVE to be brain damaged to want to wear your bag one second longer than absolutely necessary in AZ! it's freaking crotchrotting HOT!

To play devils advocate here,.....Why do medical crews find it necessary to wear their Flight Suits outside of work to the freaking GROCERY STORE or the MALL? Here in Arizona, I have seen them in Bashas and Albertsons, and at Arrowhead mall......WTH????? Really? Does your EGO really need that much stroking......I think EGO plays a role in the OP question if comm specs are wanting to wear Flight Suits......

JW


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