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Civilian Medics In Military Arena


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#1 apacheco

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 07:56 PM

I have been researching for several months on various websites and other active military personnel about the civilian paramedic scope of practice as to a military medic, ie, navy corpman, army's health care specialist 68W etc... Yet as speaking to various recruiting agencies (military) there mos is usually a EMT-B scope of practice not a paramedic scope. Does anyone know if the military allow a civilian scope of practice to transition into the military EMT-P or is this type of scope reserved only for the military nurses?
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#2 Dustoff1259

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 03:47 PM

Apacheco: There is no Paramedic practice in the Army. I can't speak for other branches. I have found that over the last 20+ years that as a Paramedic and how well you present yourself, you may be called upon to use your skills. I have pushed meds and intubated patients on several occassions. These are not procedures that 68-W combat medics are trained to perform. It also has a lot to do with where you are in the world and what type of unit you are in. I hope this helps.
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#3 Gila

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 04:24 PM

I agree. The 68W is a very diverse MOS however. Depending on your unit, mission, and leadership, you can end up performing a myriad of procedures and tasks. When I went through the course back in the 90's (91B at that time), people with valid NREMT & BLS credentials were able to start several weeks ahead in the course. They essentially skipped what were called the Delta modules at that time. (Alpha-Delta were the introductory modules that taught basic A&P, CPR, and the EMT-B curriculum). However, that also depended on the soldier's ability to pass the APFT and have a good record before they could transition into a different phase of the program. Not sure if this is still the case however.
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Christopher Bare
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#4 Sacmedic

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Posted 30 December 2008 - 08:19 PM

I agree. The 68W is a very diverse MOS however. Depending on your unit, mission, and leadership, you can end up performing a myriad of procedures and tasks. When I went through the course back in the 90's (91B at that time), people with valid NREMT & BLS credentials were able to start several weeks ahead in the course. They essentially skipped what were called the Delta modules at that time. (Alpha-Delta were the introductory modules that taught basic A&P, CPR, and the EMT-B curriculum). However, that also depended on the soldier's ability to pass the APFT and have a good record before they could transition into a different phase of the program. Not sure if this is still the case however.


Don't the Special Forces medics have the full National Registry scope? I had heard that the MOS has gone back and forth on that issue. Anyone with info?
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Clayton Thomas, EMT-P

#5 scottyb

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Posted 31 December 2008 - 12:43 AM

Air Force Pararescuemen are required to obtain National Registry Paramedic certification, although they are considered more "rescue technicians" which essentially translates to shit and git, and shoot anybody that is shooting at you. The respective squadron designates the mission...by that I mean if you are stationed in Alaska or Seattle for instance you may be utilizing a lot of paramedic skills as you may be the only air medical service and search and rescue for civilian folk for a given area, possibly working closely with the Coast Guard. Those stationed at Pope Air Force base in North Carolina will be doing primarily combat search and rescue stuff. Either way LOTS of readiness training. I would assume that similar rules apply for the Army.

I have a few friends who are Army Special Forces medics (18D) and the amount of initial training and follow on training they have to attend is incredible, but I do not have exact info on certs and scope of practice. Playing with dead goats does not sound like much fun. Although, we did have a certain someone from a certain fire dept. here in the valley who REALLY likes goats...sorry, I'm rambling.
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Scott Bild RN, FP-C

#6 Gila

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Posted 31 December 2008 - 02:51 AM

Don't the Special Forces medics have the full National Registry scope? I had heard that the MOS has gone back and forth on that issue. Anyone with info?


I am about the least qualified person to talk about SF; however, I believe some sort of degree or transition option is available to 18D qualified individuals. However, I do not think that a soldier with NREMT-P credentials would be treated differently than any other soldier during SFAS and the Q course.
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Christopher Bare
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#7 Dustoff1259

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Posted 31 December 2008 - 02:55 PM

Have any of you heard the long time rumor that the Army will begin promoting NREMT-P soldiers to warrant officers? This is an old one but several people keep spreading it.

Im continually amazed at how someone with no background or experience in medicine can candy stripe or work as a ward secretary and then go to PA school and in two years time they are then ACTING as the medical professional in charge of Nurses and Medics who run circles around them with more experience and better clinical judgement but the Army sees no problem with this.....sorry for the rant.

Back to suject. I have always seen the need for Paramedic level training and practice but for many reasons I dont think it will ever happen.

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#8 Macgyver

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Posted 01 January 2009 - 01:52 PM

Have any of you heard the long time rumor that the Army will begin promoting NREMT-P soldiers to warrant officers? This is an old one but several people keep spreading it.

Im continually amazed at how someone with no background or experience in medicine can candy stripe or work as a ward secretary and then go to PA school and in two years time they are then ACTING as the medical professional in charge of Nurses and Medics who run circles around them with more experience and better clinical judgement but the Army sees no problem with this.....sorry for the rant.

Back to suject. I have always seen the need for Paramedic level training and practice but for many reasons I dont think it will ever happen.

Dustoff 1259


Please excuse my ignorance about the US Army/Navy/Airforce/Marines/Coast Guard's medical systems, but aren't the PA's Warrant Officers? I thought we modeled our use of PA's (in the Canadian Army/Air Force/Navy) on the US experience...
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Ken BHSc, RN, REMT-P

#9 Gila

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Posted 01 January 2009 - 05:54 PM

No, PA's are officers in the US Army. Warrant Officers are usually very specialized and fill a very specific role. A good example in the Army, would be a helicopter pilot. The Army has a specific warrant officer program and pilot school. This differs somewhat from say the Navy, where the potential pilot completes a college degree, then move into his/her military specialty training. In this case, Navy pilots are officers.
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Christopher Bare
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#10 Mike P.

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 09:48 PM

Hello all-

I will try n clear up some of these ?s...and if you have more feel free to email me as I dont have time to visit here much...I spent a bit of time is SF, alot of it as an SF medic, MOS 18D.

The AF curriculum for their Pararescue (PJ) careerfield is constantly changing to meet demands/shortages etc. Currently the new PJ is an NREMT-P upon graduation from Kirtland AFB (the "Pipeline") in Albuquerque, NM. However their minimum standards are much higher than the national registry. However nowadays if you are an NREMT-P
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#11 Mike P.

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Posted 27 January 2009 - 10:06 PM

Crap, darn fingers. Try this..........sorry :rolleyes:

Hello all-

I will try n clear up some of these ?s...and if you have more feel free to email me as I dont have time to visit here much...I spent a bit of time is SF, alot of it as an SF medic, MOS 18D.

The AF curriculum for their Pararescue (PJ) careerfield is constantly changing to meet demands/shortages etc. Currently the new PJ is an NREMT-P upon graduation from Kirtland AFB (the "Pipeline") in Albuquerque, NM. However their minimum standards are much higher than the national registry. Nowadays if you are an NREMT-P you can defer this portion of the program. The PJ focus is on getting in, get their hands on the package, treat enough to ensure a viable pt off-loading at a medical facility. As was said before, some bases are highly involved in civilian SAR, some are engaged almost strictly in Combat SAR.

The Army SF Medic is like no other program. From a human medicine standpoint it is very similar to a PA program with nursing skills; then add in vet medicine, dentistry, lab tech, public health medicine and medical supply. All done with no local medical control. Sometimes the control is reachable by "radio", most often not. You are truly independant. This comprises about 40% of your education. The other 60% of the Special Forces Qualification Course is combat skills. The 18D is first and formost a "shooter". When there is only 12 of you, everyone has to count when things get sporty....

For the most part there is no civilian crossover for the 18D or any other military medical specialty. I had to attend all of PA school, others have to go to a full on paramedic program, RT program or whatever. The exception is that Cali and a few other states will let you challenge the NCLEX. But ya have to jump thru all sorts of hoops! And it is getting harder and harder for this type of RN to find a job without some kind of civilian diploma...

The SEAL corpsman and Marine RECON corpsman programs are different in that they attend portions of the 18D medical classes initially, and as they spend time on a Team or in RECON will get sent back for more classtime. They too are primarily "shooters" in their respective units, but with a much different mission both as a medical provider and from a unit mission profile standpoint.

Hopefully this helps. If you're looking for a challenge in all aspects.......

Mike
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