What advice would you give a Paramedic who is thinking about going to nursing school. My goal is to become a
CCT/Flight RN.

Unless you really WANT to be a nurse, don't do it.

I did it, and my only regret is that I didn't do it sooner. The pay raise alone is enough to justify Nursing school, but throw in the ease of finding work and the number of options there are in Nursing compared to EMS and for me the choice was easy. Drawbacks.....in some parts of the country, you may find yourself on a med-surg floor for a while.....big deal. If you play your cards right, you can find a place with a critical care training program, do some ICU (or ER) time as an RN, fly as a Medic, and spend the next couple of years learning a ton until you can fly as an RN. Keep your Medic anyway...the cert will help you in the future.

I would have to agree with the above sentiment. There's alot more to getting to Flight RN than going to school. I went your route, EMS/flight paramedic to RN- ER and ICU, then to flight nurse, and have found I was alot happier as a full time ground, part time air paramedic. The private services are extraordinarly difficult to stay with if you are concerned about your health or your licence, and the hospital/university based programs are difficult to get into unless you have an "in" or you don't mind moving to where the job is. I'm back on the ground now, having to work in a position I hate just to pay the bills that I incurred going back to school, and then living the life style that nursing afforded me. The only real solace is that I educate now, which I love. My suggestion is the same I offer to my students- if your heart is not in NURSING, (not flight, but just nursing), you're better off at the 7/11.

I did it too! Like others my only regret was not doing it sooner. The flight program I work for was very supportive of me doing this. Nearly all the RN's are also EMT-P's as well. It has worked out well for me.

Try and find a good fast trac program. It should only take two or three semisters after pre-regs. I'm in a program now. I will continue to fly as a Medic and work in ER as nurse.

What about excelsior college? It's an online nursing school that allows paramedics, lvn's, RT's, and others to complete nursing classes at your own pace. www.excelsior.com

I am still looking into it, it is better to get most of your general education credits first, otherwise you have to pay for each test to gain the credit. They work with you on payments also.

I support anyone who is looking to increase their knowledge base be it RN -> EMT-P or EMT-P --> RN. Good for you, Go for it!

Go for it. Ditto, I should have done it sooner, did the RRT first, then the NREMT-P, now onward. But, better late than never. Seek out Excelsior - it's the right program for those that have extensive in hospital clinical time.

Well, now that I have been thinking about doing this. I have a couple question for you guys.

Would I get hired anywhere? "What nursing school did you go to?" I'm positive that I would be able to pass all exams and be able to work in the ER setting, as I have done before as a medic. But how would I be looked at as an applicant? Obviously I would want to fly as a RN aswell. Any suggestions or comments?

As long as you graduate from an NLN accredited school of nursing, it should not matter where it was. Your clinical experience with speak volumes on your behalf.

Good Luck,
Bruce Bowles, RN

NLN, is that the same as the NLNAC? If so, then it is accredited. Thanks for your reply.

Matt

On the topic of being accredited ... is there a big difference between NLN and CCNE? The school I'm attending is CCNE, and apparently just lost/gave up its NLN... Is it time to look into a change of location?

- Greg

About the pre-req's for excelsior. I am thinking I should take these courses at a local college and then enroll into excelsior. I know they offer you to study the books and take the test to "CLEP" out of these courses, and gain the credit you need (H&P, biology, english, etc). How did you go about this? Which way do you think would be faster?

Thanks for the info, I am going to do it. But the question is now or later.

Matt

Do it. More money, more job security depending what type of program you end up in. I worked as Flight medic while going to NRS school, left 3 1/2 yrs to the ICU, and am back as Flight RN. Good Luck.

As I understand it, there exists both accrediting bodies: NLN (National League for Nursing http://www.nln.org/) and CCNE (Commission on Collegiate Nursing Education http://www.aacn.nche.edu/Accreditation/). Currently I don't think it matters if your program is accredited by one or the other, or both. What is important, however, is that the program is accredited by at least one of them. I suggest you read their websites and decide for yourself what is important.

Many of these posts emphasize getting through nursing school quickly. If you choose that route, make sure you have good, solid foundational education. I would never discourage anyone from attending nursing OR paramedic school (both professions have been rewarding to me) but you need good education otherwise when you graduate and start working, you might discover how ill-prepared you really are and that would be very unfortunate...and what if your supervisor and colleagues find you ill-prepared too? You're ability to do the job is going to be assessed before and after hire.

Best Wishes and Good Luck

Think about the pre-reqs at a local junior college, that is what I'm doing. It is soooo much cheaper than Excelcior. Lots of colleges now have internet courses or video courses, if attending class is a problem with the old schedule. The one's that I am taking I attend a orientation class (1 hour) on one day, go check out all the videos, and show up for the test a month later. And to the original question, DO IT!!

I recently completed nursing school through Excelsior College in just over two years. I take the NCLEX-RN July 12th.

Let me take a moment and tell my background since this is my first post to Flightweb.com.

I've been in EMS for 17yrs, 14yrs as a paramedic. I worked for 21 months as a flight paramedic in the western US for a private rotor and fixed wing service, doing mostly scene flights with some interfacility transfers. I am CCEMT-P and FP-C certified. I have considerable 911 and CCT experience as primary provider (without RN). I have a BA in Geology and now an AS in Nursing. For fun and relaxation I trail run, rock climb, kayak and generally just play outside. I did a year of a "traditional" nursing school before enrolling in Excelsior. The traditional school was the worst educational experience of my life. I won't travel that road now. :-)

Do I recommend nursing school for a paramedic wanting to be a flight nurse?

Overall I would say yes. It is difficult to make a career of being a paramedic most places. How many paramedics retire from EMS? Where I am working now the retirement plan is generally to go out on disability with a bad back. Nursing has many other opportunities than just flight and the pay is better.


My job search is going well with two offers for ER/ICU already. What I have found is that I am in a grey area, being an experienced paramedic and a "new" nurse. Some managers and recruiters recognize the skills paramedics have and others do not. Overall the reaction has been favorable. I've only gotten one totally negative reaction regarding my degree and experience. This particular hospital doesn't like Excelsior grads and thinks paramedic experience is useless. This is also the same hospital that wants BSN nurses for the ICU. Good luck with the current shortage.

On a personal and perhaps arrogant note regarding some of my motivation for nursing school. While I worked with RN's who had excellent prehospital skills, I found that I was carrying some of the flight nurses through many scene calls because they did not have the skills they needed. I found many of the nurses I worked with to not have airways skills that where equal to most paramedics. This reflects the backgound they come from for the most part. I think overall the RN/EMT-P team brings the best of both worlds to the air medical arena. The service I worked for encouraged the nurses to be lead attendant on scene flight and the paramedics to be lead attendant on interfacitilty transfers so each would expand thier comfort zones. Overall this worked well. I would personally rather work with a nurse who had a prehospital background on a scene call, but there is no substitute for an ICU RN when it comes to a complicated interfacility transfer. Some of my motivation for nursing school came from the "If they can do it, so can I!!!" area.

Anyhow...that's my angle on the matter.

Steve

Good luck with the NCLEX. Let us know how things turn out.

Hi Guys & Gals,,I am also new to this site and I'm sorry if I interrupt someone else's post but I was going to post with some of the same questions. Since reading all this, most of mine have been answered,,,except:

Alot of you have made the transition from medic to nurse. Myself on the other hand, I am an EMT-B. I have been doing it for 4 years and I have been doing rescue in a Fire Deptartment for 5 years. I have been told that my skills and quick thinking are above average and that I am wasting my talents if I stay where I am. I sat down and thought of my options and I have come to the conclusion that I want to go from an Angel without wings to an Angel with wings. In my state they have changed our Paramedic program to a 2 year college program, as is our RN program. So I figured why not use the same time frame and be more advanced. Not saying I've seen it all by any means, but I have seen more than most since I don't sit and see who will jump up for the next call, and I have actually become bored in my skill level because of it. I just want to do more. I do very well in school, and I am currently doing such. Is it possible to go from EMT-B to RN and then to Flight? I just ask due to reading all the previous post.

Also I would just like to introduce myself to all of you. I am very interested in the career you all have decided to do and I am anxious to join you and hope to develope some friendly relationships with all of you as I pursue this goal over the next couple of years.

Become a flight paramedic !

Go for it! Your EMT cert will definitely help you as a flight nurse. Once you become an RN then you will have to get 3-5 years experience in critical care which is ER/ICU. A good mix of both is helpful. You will find the knowledge you gain in the hospital seeing how patients are taken care of after transport and the multitude of drugs and advanced interventions that are done within the hospital is highly helpful in the field.

In the end the choice is yours

Thanks Mike, it sure looks like I'm going to enjoy this new career I've chosen. Even all the experience to get to it .

If you are really serious about nursing school go. I am another who was a paramedic for several years and went to school a little at a time, did a small community college program and found work instantly. I have a couple of paramedics I worked with that went with the sole intention of just getting a better pay scale. Then found out that nursing is really work, whatever branch of it you are in, and got out quickly. There are perks and drawbacks to any career you choose, but I personally like being able to go anywhere to work. With the current nursing shortage, it's nice to know I'll have my job. As a nurse I've never had a payroll check bounce, (which happened to me twice with ground services) I may not always like the job I have to do, but I like the security of knowing I'll have a job. Nursing is very fluid, it's like filling a container with water and watching the water take the shape of that container, it's not one faceted. You can always find a job, and you can go almost anywhere.

I passed the NCLEX-RN...now I'm in that interesting world of being an experienced paramedic and a "new" RN! It should be fun!

I've already had two job offers and two more offers for interviews! Time to punch that ER/ICU ticket for 2-3 years and get back in the air!

Steve

Congratulations, Steve! I would probably cry if I had to take them again-it's been along time since the hand written exam was the only means of taking the test!. I think your experience as a paramedic should only be a positive asset for you. The 2-3 years will go quickly. Good Luck with the interviews and future career!

I thought I'd pick up on the thread started about a year ago and give some thoughts after a year as an RN.

It's been an interesting year. I spent ten months in an ER in Colorado Springs. I'm now working in a cardiac surgery ICU in Roanoke, VA.

What do I think of my overall decision to become an RN? Overall I think I made a good choice because of the flexibility and better pay. I did it as a direction back to flight as a nurse.

What did I think of ER? Overall I thought ER was most of the bad things of EMS with little of the good. High volume, low acuity, high BS with little automomy compared to the field. In spite of working in a Level II trauma ER, we saw little trauma. I was hired by a management team that consisted of a paramedic and a manager that hired me based on my background. The management changed after I had been there for a week to a team that didn't give me much credit for my past experience as a paramedic. I didn't get the critical patients for a while, got stuck with most of the psychs and BS. After most of the charge nurses realized that I had a clue I was given my share of real patients. In spite of that, there sure is a lot of BS in the ER! I was not allowed to do triage because of my "inexperience" as a nurse. Overall I worked with a great group of nurses, got to interact with an excellent group of EMS providers in Colorado Springs, but ten months was enough. I was not getting the skills I want to add to my experience for flight nursing. This coupled with the relatively low pay for nurses in CS made me start looking for another job.

I looked into critical care where I was working and was told I would have to sign a two year contract for my training. That was not acceptable to me once I found out many of the nurses nearing the end of their contracts were leaving. The other hospital in town offered me what ever ICU I wanted, at a large cut in pay. Also not acceptable.

I've been in the cardiac surgery ICU here in Roanoke for about a month and I'm having a good time. It's different than ER in a good way. I've seen plenty of A lines, Swans, vents and other cool things. The orientation is very well planned and thorough. I don't know if I'l stay forever, but it will give me skills I can't take to back to flight. I also have a PRN Paramedic job with the hospital's transport division which I hope to turn into a flight paramedic then nurse position. Things are going well and I think my decision was a good one. I got a pay raise, a bonus, paid relocation, lower COL and a better job. Life is pretty good!

The major drawback...it's hotter than HELL here!!! I'm ready to go to Alaska until October!

Steve

Good luck to you.Go nursing because you WANT TO BE A NURSE, first and foremost.Thats my best advice to you...otherwise you are going to have a hard time.That has got to be your primary motivation, otherwise your fellow nursing colleagues and lecturers are going to see as merely 'becoming a nurse' for the benefits.
Enjoy and make the most of your training; I never once have regretted doing nursing as opposed to anything else.

...............After a little less that two years in the ED, my full time job is still at the same hospital, but now I'm in what's called "Supplemental Staffing". This is supposed to be reserved for nurses with >5yrs experience, but it was waived due to my pre-hospital experience and the multiple certifications that I obtained as a medic (PALS-I, BTLS-I, ACLS-I, NRP, PEPP). Now I get to make my own schedule, but I'm getting paid 50% higher than the "average" nurse in the hospital. The down side? I never know where I'm going to be working on a given shift. 2 nights a go, I was in CVICU, last night the ED, and tonight in pedi. On my days off ( I work 7 on / 7 off), I work as a flight RN to keep the adrenaline junkie in me happy............

This sort of stuff scares the hell out of me!!!!!

Here is a good article written by Tom Frundle, a Vanderbilt Lifeflight Nurse. He was a paramedic before nursing school and writes about some different options in this article.

http://www.merginet.com/index.cfm?pg=professional&fn=ParamedictoRN

GO FOR IT. There is a lot a nurse can do other than hospitial work.

I first like to say that SATransportRN is the first one to hit the nail on the head. I've been watching this discussion for a very long time. Let me first describe my background. I attended an University nursing program (BSN) and EMT-P program at the same time (long story about that). That was 25 yrs ago. My primary role over those years has ranged from being a RN (clinical staff in a hosp & flight RN, education, and administration) and EMT-P (part-time or volunteer in 911 systems).

Now, to the point. Go to nursing because you WANT to be a RN. Don't do it for the money, benefits, hours, better working environment, etc. It reminds me of people who say that they plan to go to nursing school but they really want to attend PA or medical school later. WRONG approach and a poor use of time when it could be applied to what your real goal is, to be a PA or MD.

When I say "nurse"... it means belonging to a profession, not just a job. The focus in the messages seem to be around the idea that nursing gets you better pay, better benefits (not all time), and more opportunities.

As a side note - yes, there are a number of RN who don't see their own career to be a profession but as a “job”. That has been a never ending discussion in the general nursing community so I will not spend time on that topic.

I believe that there are two people who are hurt from the mindset of going from a paramedic to RN -- BASED on some of the comments people have described in the above messages... getting better pay for doing the same "skills" as a flight medic and working as a flight nurse.

The first person it may hurt is YOU. I've been around many people who went into nursing for the wrong reasons and they have been unhappy ever since. It shows up in their work, their attitudes, the way they interact with their patients and medical staff. Yes, they can perform in very technical way but nursing is more than knowing the "skills" and applying them. Test yourself to know if you could be happy being a RN. Imagine this scenario… If you were asked what you do for a living in a large open crowd/audience, could you just say—“I’m a Registered Nurse” without any reservation and any additional qualifier (I’m a flight nurse, emergency nurse, critical care nurse, etc.) and be proud in saying it.

The second person that could be hurt is your patient (some may say this should be first). If you are unhappy and you’re mindset is that this nursing "job" is just a "ticket punch" to get back to flying, then you may not be focused on providing quality nursing care. I know it’s hard for many of the paramedics (especially the males) to swallow those words, “nursing care” but that is what it is. A major focus for patients who are admitted to a traditional hospital setting is for “nursing care”. If they didn’t need nursing care, then they would be treated as an out-patient and then go home where that would take care of themselves (which of course is growing more). Another simple scenario that you can ask yourself… If your family member was in the Medical ICU with renal failure, CHF, etc., describe the kind of a RN you want to provide total nursing care during their 8 to 12 hours shift. Remember, skip to technical skills because those are just that “skills” that can be taught to many different people. How does Intern learn skills; see one, do one, teach one. Yes, enough practice makes most people better at any skill.

I look forward to your responses but before you do write, please read my comments carefully. There are no comments or intent to say that paramedics know or do anything less than what they have learned or what is within their scope of practice. When I’m functioning in a Paramedic role, it is a profession of its own. When asked out in the street or by some bystander who I am, I simply say, I’m a Paramedic. Not a nurse or RN.

Also, just as it is for medics, not all RN’s are created equal. An ADN RN may clinically perform better than a BSN RN so I would like to avoid the discussion of comparing the education preparation and capabilities of each groups – ADN vs. BSN vs. Diploma RN. Again, this topic has been long standing issue within the general nursing community.

This discussion is focused on the transition of a paramedic to the nursing profession that could serve in many different roles within healthcare, not just flight nursing, ED or the ICU.

Mr. M2822, RN, MSN, NREMT-P

Mr. M2822: Interesting commentary, to be sure. I was one of the ones who posted a year ago, and also was one of the ones who walked down the path you describe. My only question?- Where were you when I was contemplating RN school?

I think, though, that alot of people get to nursing for alot of different reasons, and I believe discounting technical skill is a mistake, especially in the environment the people on this site work in. Although I agree with your point about being sullen of attitude, and interaction if you are in a profession you didn't really want, I personally would disagree with your second point, especially in the transport environment. My wife can fluff my pillows and smile at me, but, by golly, they better know that the Metoprolol and the Nipride come in vials but are totally different meds, (yes, happened to me- don't even get me going down that trail.)

I have to say that you make good points, however, in example against what you have said in certain areas- one of the "ticket punchers" you refer to in your post I happen to know personally. Trust me, in the pre and intra hospital transport environment, this RN will be a stellar addition to any program because of his skill set and the additional knowledge he has picked up from punching his ticket in the ER and ICU.

In general though, a well thought out, excellent post.

Regards,
Duane

This is an interesting revival of a long time thread. I have just completed a BSN program and passed boards, while having worked full time as a flight paramedic. I am fortunate enough to work for a service that is willing to allow me a transition to flight nursing directly from flight paramedicine. This is, I believe, partly due to the close working relationship between our nurse/medic crews, and partly due to good work history (I believe). I just worked my first shift as a RN, and will continue to work shifts as both medic and RN. My point is that in my 15 + years of EMS have allowed me some exceptional experiences, that perhaps according to the above posting, maybe I have been providing "nursing care" in EMS. Say it isn't so!!!! And isn't this simply applying and blending the clinical skill and judgement, with the compassion to hold the hand of a suffering patient or talk with your patient instead of about them. I saw a previous post that expresses this sentiment very well, and is similar to something I have felt for years. Nursing and Paramedicine are complimentary and easily compatible careers. One isn't better than the other, and there are good and bad practitioners of both, just as in all professions. Yes, there are even bad physicians . For those that want to be a nurse, great, go ahead do it, I appreciate the opportunities afforded me because of it. Want to be a paramedic, outstanding, I am now and will always be. I hope I am a better medic for my nursing school experience, and likewise hope that I will be a better nurse because of my medic background. By the wayside, I found the NCLEX-RN to be the stupidest test that I have ever seen, probably could have passed it before this whole process, and seriously doubt it's validity as a test of entry level nursing competence. Anyway, thank you for this thread and your tolerence of my rambling.

Fly Safe
Warren
BSN, NR/CCEMT-P, FP-C, M.O.U.S.E., A.B.C.D.E.,dooodaaa, dooodaaa, oh yeah RN too!

It looks like I've breathed some life back into an old but important thread.

Thanks Duane, for the vote of confidence.

M2822,

Thank you for your well thought out post. I do have some comments regarding it.

My focus now as it always has been is on the patient, patient care comes first. It really doesn't matter if that is "nursing" or "emergency" care. I view what we all do as a continuous path from the emergency scene, sending hospital, ER to what we all hope will be a favorable discharge home. At each point is this path we focus on certain points. The paramedic, ER nurse, ICU nurse and floor nurse all have thier own area of focus. What each one does influences the patients course at each other level. At least that's the way I see my job. I don't think each operates in a vacuum. I use skills from every area I have worked every day.

I've seen technicians and clinicians with both EMT-P and RN after their name. I've seen paramedics who know more about why they are doing things than many residents and I've seen ICU nurses that have no idea why they titrate drips or give fluids based on numbers from the Swan. So that argument doesn't wash, there are techncians everywhere.

Punching tickets: We all punch tickets. I'm certain you did to get your letters after your name. My prefered place in the "food chain" is out of the hospital and I am getting the experience to get there as an RN. I am doing this so I can give my patients better care as BOTH an RN and a Paramedic. I prefer to be out of the hospital, but for me the patient come first, in the ED, ICU or the tall sage of Nevada.

That's about all for now, my battery is low and dinner is here. Later and fly safe.

Steve

You wrote: ANY info you have about Excelsior would be greatly appreciated

My wife completed her RN via the Excelsior program and thought it was very good. Being an LPN for 3-4 years gave her a really strong foundation for the clinical evaluations.

After you get through all the "....ology" courses and do the exams at the testing center, you're eligible for the clinical part, and then the NCLEX.

The costs of courses is reasonable: A little higher than traditional tuition, but nothing that's cost prohibitive. There's also an annual fee that is required to keep you registered, so it would behoove you to get your courses done in a timely matter. Since she has strong test taking skills, the standardized tests weren't a problem and her LPN years were an advantage.

The clinical exam was also good. There's a med test the night before. It's pretty basic and incorporated some of the finer things like insulin (to include the age old task of which insulin do you draw up first when giving both Regular and NPH, adding air to the vial, and calculating 1 liter of fluid over 24 hours without a calculator or a pump, etc.). Don't even worry about titrating a gtt, 'cuz' you won't see it. Not too hard if you've done it before, but if you haven't, get some training.

The other part of the clinical eval involves 4 adult cases and 2 pedi cases. You'll have time to review the patient's chart, and then do your assessment, interventions, etc. What's really good about it is the evaluation in 100% go or no-go. They tell you everything that must be done right up front. Miss a single key area and you bust. There's no discussion and the evaluator's score is final. Once you have two successful adult cases and 1 pedi, you're all done.

What will make the clinicals successful for you would be to get some training from a really solid Med-Surg nurse, as the focus is on the basics.

There were (if memory serves) 6 EMT types at her clinical weekend and all of them failed. Not because they were stupid--they just didn't have the skill set that the evaluation requires. The clinical evals are not "pump and blow scenarios, where's the ambu bag, lights and sirens type stuff. It's more directed towards breathing, pain control, treating the patient like a human being, showing that you care about what you're doing, hand washing, assessing the effect of your interventions, nursing documentation, use of nursing diagnosis', etc.

Hope this information is helpful. Best of luck!