Re: WETTER or NUT to D-Fib ?

[Ken Lawson-Williams <Macgyver@FlightMedicMail.com>]

Didn't the HeartStart people (I think that was who, the grey AED with a cylindrical shaper left side, notebook size) do a bunch of trials with a turkey on a pool deck with both fresh and salt water about 7 or 8 years ago? Came to much the same conclusion, but with an electrical potential grid (courtesy pool deeck tiles/markings) that allowed more specific determination of energy at various distances form the 'body'?

Fly Safe. 
Ken L-W CCEMT-P/RN etc


--- "Brault, Charles" <cbrault@bechtel.com> wrote:
>An old question
>Partially answered
>
>
>
>July/September 2003 . Volume 7 . Number 3 
>
>Original Articles
>The safe use of automated external defibrillators in a wet
>environment 
>
>Tom Lyster, MS [MEDLINE LOOKUP]
>Dawn Jorgenson, PhD [MEDLINE LOOKUP]
>Carl Morgan, MS [MEDLINE LOOKUP] 
>Sections 
>
>   Abstract	 
>There has been concern regarding potential shock hazards for rescuers
>or bystanders when a defibrillator is used in a wet environment and
>the recommended safety procedure, moving the patient to a dry area,
>is not followed. 
>
>Objective. To measure the electrical potentials associated with the
>use of an automated external defibrillator (AED) in a realistically
>modeled wet environment. 
>
>Methods. A raw processed turkey was used as a patient surrogate. The
>turkey was placed on a cement floor while pool water was applied to
>the surrounding area. To simulate a rescuer or bystander in the
>vicinity of a patient, a custom sense probe was constructed.
>Defibrillation shocks were delivered to the turkey and the probe was
>used to measure the voltage an operator/bystander would receive at
>different points surrounding the surrogate. The test was repeated
>with salt water. 
>
>Results. The maximum voltage occurred approximately 15 cm from the
>simulated patient and measured 14 V peak (current 14 mA peak) in the
>case of pool water, and 30 V peak (current 30 mA peak) in the case of
>salt water. 
>
>Conclusions. Thirty volts may result in some minor sensation by the
>operator or bystander, but is considered unlikely to be hazardous
>under these circumstances. The maximum currents were lower than
>allowed by safety standards. Although defibrillation in a wet
>environment is not recommended practice, our simulation of a patient
>and a rescuer/bystander in a wet environment did not show significant
>risk should circumstances demand it. PREHOSPITAL EMERGENCY CARE
>2003;7:307-311 
>
> 
>   References	
>1.  Marenco JP, Wang PJ, Link MS, Homound MK, Estes NAM. Improving
>survival from sudden cardiac arrest, the role of the automated
>external defibrillator. JAMA. 2001;285:1193-200. 
>MEDLINE
>
>
>2.  Gibbs W, Eisenberg M, Damon SK. Dangers of defibrillation:
>injuries to emergency personnel during patient resuscitation. Am J
>Emerg Med. 1990;8:101-4. 
>MEDLINE
>
>
>3.  Miller LV, Brennan R. Cardiac defibrillator use in potentially
>hazardous situations. Biomed Sci Instrum. 1982;18:87-90. 
>MEDLINE
>
>
>4.  Dedrick DK, Darga A, Landis D, Burney RE. Defibrillation safety
>in emergency helicopter transport. Ann Emerg Med. 1989;18:69-71. 
>MEDLINE
>
>
>5.  Line-powered defibrillators. Health Dev. 1983;12:298.
>
>6.  Poole JE, White RD, Kanz K, et al. Low-energy
>impedance-compensating biphasic waveforms terminate ventricular
>fibrillation at high rates in victims of out-of-hospital cardiac
>arrest. J Cardiovasc Electrophysiol. 1997; 8:1373-85. 
>MEDLINE
>
>
>7.  Olson WH. Electrical Safety. In: Webster JG (ed). Medical
>Instrumentation Application and Design. Boston: Houghton Mifflin
>Company, 1978.
>
>
>
>   Publishing and Reprint Information	 
>. Received November 27, 2002. 
>. From Philips Medical Systems, Seattle, Washington (TL, DJ, CM).
>. Revision received March 11, 2003.
>. Accepted for publication March 11, 2003. 
>. Supported by Philips Medical Systems, Seattle, WA.
>. Address correspondence and reprint requests to: Tom Lyster, MS,
>Philips Medical Systems, 
>2301 5th Avenue, Suite 200, 
>Seattle, WA 98121. 
>e-mail:  tom.lyster@philips.com  .
>
>
>FULL TEXT AT :
>
>http://www2.us.elsevierhealth.com/scripts/om.dll/serve?action=logout&id=preh
>os
>
>
>http://www2.us.elsevierhealth.com/scripts/om.dll/serve?action=searchDB&searc
>hDBfor=iss&id=jprehos0300703
>
>http://www2.us.elsevierhealth.com/scripts/om.dll/serve?action=searchDB&searc
>hDBfor=art&artType=full&id=aprehos0070307
>
> 
>
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