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Its interesting, since most scenes have an abundance of excellant EMS
personnel. Why would you need to fly one in? Here in Oregon (at
least surrounding the area that I live in), a ground paramedic is perfectly
capable of trauma care and scene management. When we arrive everything has
usually been done to ready the patient for transport and we spend very little
time on scene. The intent is to get out of there and on the way to the
surgeon. We would never try to tell them how to run the scene, get involved
in extracation. What is the reasoning behind the law, seems like 2 RNs
could do the job well or ? How did the law come into effect, due
to problems or just one group getting rules made to exclude others?
michele moore emt-p rrt >>> jenharris@flightnursing.com 05/03/03 12:06AM >>> Actually, the Texas Administrative Code Title 25 Part 1 Chapter 157 Subchapter B Rule 157.12 states that for a helicopter: (1) when responding to an emergency scene, at least one of the personnel shall be a paramedic; (2) when responding for an inter-facility transfer, at least one of the personnel performing patient care duties shall be a certified or licensed paramedic, registered nurse or physician. The qualifications and numbers of air medical personnel shall be appropriate to patient care needs; (3) when responding as in paragraphs (1) and (2) of this subsection, the second person may be a certified or licensed paramedic, registered nurse, or a physician; and In other words, interfacility helicopter transports can have quite a combination of staff - but does not always require a paramedic. I had to clarify this when I was working for a paramedic-owned helicopter company that thought the same thing - that all helicopter transports in Texas require a paramedic. Even after reading the rule the owner was convinced that somehow the state had ruled against 2 nurses carrying out an interfacility transport. I clarified with TDH. In reality, a paramedic is required for SCENE work. Blue skies, Jen Harris, RN, CEN, CFRN ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patrick Cobb" <pcobb@wilcoems.org> To: <flightmed@flightweb.com> Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 8:49 PM Subject: re:nurses vs. medics > This has been an interesting discussion over the obvious discrepancies.However, one topic has not surfaced that I attribute to the problem; TIME.The first nursing journal was published in 1886.Obviously, nursing has been around for many years before the invention of formally trained pre-hospital providers.I believe Paramedicine is still fighting a big demon; TRADITION.In the beginning of Paramedicine, we were taught the basics.Just enough to provide minimal care to patients and hope they get to the hospital alive.That is the way some of the nursing profession still views our role in patient care.Obviously, this is a very general statement.But consider this, how many Paramedics go thru hospital clinicals as part of their training process versus the number of nurses who go thru field clinicals with us.We all know the answer-not very many.If we as a profession took more time to educate the nursing students, we would have a much easier time in helping the nursing field understand just exactly what it is to do the job we do.To this day, I still go to ICU's and pick up critically ill patients and transport them to a higher level of care.Funny thing is, I get all the paperwork handed to me in a sealed envelope that says "Give to Doctor" and my verbal report consists of "Here is your face sheet".I know I am not the only one this happens to.I really believe the nurses who do this think that if something bad happens enroute there is nothing I can do about it;or, they think we are going to call a doctor to tell us what to do.The reason this occurs is simple;no effort on our part to educate them on what our capabilities really are.How do you fix it?To me it seems the easiest way is start from the top.Organizations like the National Registry could play a key role in helping educate nursing schools on what we do.Form partnerships with your local schools so that training for both sides of the house are equal.I cannot believe this would not make a positive impact on our profession.As far as the pay is concerned, I do not know many pre-hospital agencies who have the funds to pay us what hospital based nurses make.Especially with the political game this would cause.However, I do not believe it is fair and equitable for a flight team to have unequal pay.Yes, the two professionals compliment each other when on calls.However, when nurse/medic combo's were first devised, there was one clear intention why-the medic handles the scene calls and the nurse handles the inter-facility transfers.This was logical in the beginning because of the vast difference in training.But, in this day of CCT Paramedics holding a plethora of certifications and at least a 2-yr degree versus a nurse with a 2-yr degree and the same certifications, what really is the difference?Add to the fact that at least in Texas, a helicopter cannot transport a patient without a Paramedic.It seems clear to me that the Paramedic should have the same pay,privileges,and authority as a flight nurse.I do not want to open pandora's box regarding EMT-P's working with full privileges in critical care hospital areas such as ER's and ICU's.To me that is the nurse's world, not ours.Just like we as medics train for the field, not the nurses. > > Patrick N. Cobb, EMT-P, EMD > > _______________________________________________ > Flightmed mailing list > To unsubscribe or change your email address, go to http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/flightmed _______________________________________________ Flightmed mailing list To unsubscribe or change your email address, go to http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/flightmed |