Re: pt. consent

["Wesley Copeland Sr., MICT, NREMT-P, FP-C, CCEMTP" <wcemt@terraworld.net>]

>From a strictly medical point of view I agree that the decision to transport
to level one was correct, and likely defendable under implied consent laws
if the family was not immediately available.  I was simply trying to point
out that our powers to make choices for other people are legally limited and
before we jump to blow off the wishes of patients and family members to
follow protocols or our own opinions, we need to realize that patients and
family members (as specified by law) do have the legal right to make choices
about the care received even if we view these choices as bad.  It is our
duty to explain the possible risks of such choices in hopes that a more
viable choice be made but it is NOT our duty to force people to accept what
we believe is right and doing so can lead to legal action.

Wesley Copeland FP-C

----- Original Message -----
From: <heeledoer@telis.net>
To: <flightmed@flightweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 12:53 PM
Subject: Re: pt. consent


> I disagree, respectfully in this case, that there is any indication to
> support a possible "...charges of battery or false imprisonment." Unless
> it is known, in advance that there exists a power of attorney declaration
> or a living will specifying the patients wishes and designating, in name,
> those he wants to make decisions on his behalf. I believe the crew acted
> appropriately by following protocols, state law and adhering to the ethic
> of doing what is in the best interest of the patient. There is just as
> likely a possibility that the patients' wishes would be to not have the
> family making decisions on his behalf, what then?; as well as the
> possibility that the family was thinking more about themselves relative to
> a past experience not related to trauma, in which the outcome was less
> than favorable. By no means should that experience prevail, prejudicially,
> when it comes to a major traumatic event where the facility best suited is
> the one having all the resource disciplines at hand to accommodate a
> chance at the most favorable outcome...also, the Level III would, E V E N
> T U A L L Y, transfer the patient anyway.
> My thoughts, and I'm sticking to them.
> Good discussion,
> Lee Auckenthaler, RN
> Mountain Lifeflight
> Susanville, CA
>
>
> While I agree that "doing what's best for the patient" should be at the
> > fore front of all our actions, we must also remember that this is not a
> > viable defense to charges of battery or false imprisonment.  The patient
> > or patients family (if the patient is unable to make an informed
> > decision) does have the legal right to refuse transport to a particular
> > facility regardless of how we feel about it or what our protocols say.
> > We need to explain the benefits and risks associated with such refusals
> > in great detail in hopes that the patient/family may change their mind
> > and to protect ourselves but we can not force treatment or transport on
> > anyone.
> >
> > Wesley Copeland FP-C
> >
> >
>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: flightmed-admin@flightweb.com
> >> [mailto:flightmed-admin@flightweb.com]On Behalf Of
> >> jffmedic46@netzero.com
> >> Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 5:23 PM
> >> To: flightmed@flightweb.com
> >> Subject: pt. consent
> >>
> >>
> >> I have question for anyone that will answer. I had a elderly patient
> >> involved in an MVC with +loc at scene, multiple extremity fractures,
> > pelvic
> >> fracture, head lac, Responsive to name only following prolonged
> > extracation.
> >> 30 minutes to only Level I trauma center around. EMS on scene stated
> >> pt. family wants her taken to a Level III hospital same distance away
> >> for they did not like how past family members where treated at Level I
> >> in the past. Our guidelines state to take her to the Level I Trauma
> >> center with the injuries that she had,which we did. Now family states
> >> their rights were violated. The crew did not talk to the family at the
> >> scene, only the EMS unit that called us. The EMS unit had told the
> >> family that we had to take her to the most appropriate facility and
> >> left it at that. My question is, "Was this patients rights violated?"
> >>
> >> J. Stone NREMT-P
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >
> >
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