Re: Helicopter risk/benefit

["Robert L. Carnevale" <cw5aso@erols.com>]

Nick,

We don't transport a patient without a signed transfer form from the referring facility.  The decision to
fly a patient is made before you receive the call requesting the transport.  So the potential risks
associated with flight have been covered by the referring facility.
I don't understand your question about deciding whether it is safe to fly.  Are you talking about weather
issues?  If you are, then of course the pilot decides if there is appropriate weather to conduct the
flight.  What does most appropriate decision nor in the patients best interest mean?  Are you referring
to the MD who made a decision to fly?  Sometimes a referring MD will make an inappropriate request.  This
is where your medical director/medical control gets involved, not the medical crew.  Talk about stepping
on your toes.  How would it sound for a medcical crew to question the referring MD's decision about the
form of transport.

Bob Carnevale

Nick Nudell wrote:

> Oh, this is so NOT true!
>
> > Informing the patient of potential risks isn't the job of the flight crew.
> If you do not have the consent (informed or assumed) then you have just
> kidnapped your patient!
>
> >We are responding to a facility that has made the decision that a patient
> needs to be transported by air.  That facility/referring MD has the
> responsibility to inform the patient/family of the potential risks involved.
>
> Yes they do. Then it is the decision of who to decide whether it is safe to
> fly?? It is the flight crew. Just because you have been requested, does not
> mean that it is the most appropriate decision nor in the patients best
> interest. The medical personnel taking the transfer assume this
> responsibility!
>
> Be safe.
> Nick
>
> ____
> Nick Nudell, NREMT-P, CCEMT-P
> Education Coordinator
> Glacier County EMS
> www.glacierems.com
> nudell@prehospital-perspective.com
>
> "What we are communicates far more eloquently than anything we say, even
> more than anything we do.." -- Steven Covey
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Robert L. Carnevale" <cw5aso@erols.com>
> To: <flightmed@flightweb.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 6:49 AM
> Subject: Re: Helicopter risk/benefit
>
> > Ken,
> >
> > Informing the patient of potential risks isn't the job of the flight crew.
> We are responding to a facility that has made the decision that a patient
> needs to be transported by air.  That facility/referring MD has the
> responsibility to inform the patient/family of the potential risks involved.
> Obviously, a decision was made that whatever risk might be there, the need
> to be flown (benefits) outweighed those risks.
> >
> > Most hospital patient transfer forms already have a section for the
> patient/guardian/family member to acknowledge that they understand the risk
> associated with flying in an aircraft.  Have you ever seen this?
> >
> > Our crews inform patients about our safety record when asked.  What is the
> benefit to telling them about accident statistics of our industry?  That is
> something you can't control.
> >
> > Bob Carnevale
> > Safety Program Manager
> > Pilot
> >
> > Ken Lawson-Williams wrote:
> >
> > > SNIP
> > >
> > > What if you told your patient that approximately 12 people have died
> this past month in aeromedical helicopter crashes just in the US... then
> tell him that there have been no reported fatal ambulance crashes during
> this same period... then you ask your patient "Would you like to go by
> helicopter?". Do you inform your patients of this? Remember, if you do not
> inform your patients of the risks of treatment (transportation is a
> treatment) prior to performing them, you have not received informed consent
> from your patient; Ala, COBRA and EMTALA.
> > >
> > > Good point, except were all 12 patients?
> > >
> > > If we have to start identifying these (valid)transport risks we need to
> be consistent and accurate. Lets use annual fatalities/injuries due to
> accidents in USA, Helicopter (patients) -vs- Fixed Wing (patients) -vs-
> Ground (patients), normalised to a fatalities per 1,000,000 patient
> transport miles basis. Data should be accessible, (number of transports
> times paid mileage) can be derived easily from new billing requirements if
> someone in government chooses to, all that is left is organising the data by
> transport type and normalising it.....
> > >
> > > Fly Safe.
> > > Ken L-W CCEMT-P/WMT
> > >
> > > Duct tape is like the force, it has a light side and a dark side, and it
> holds the universe together.
> > >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Flightmed mailing list
> To unsubscribe or change your email address, go to http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/flightmed


_______________________________________________
Flightmed mailing list
To unsubscribe or change your email address, go to http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/flightmed